Mathematic Miracle of the Quran!!!!!

Dear All;

This week has been a very fruitful one in terms of the new information, sites and articles which I have found.

This post is by FAR different from my previous posts as it contains something that even now that I'm typing it I find really hard to grasp.

As You all probably know one of the reasons for the existence of different versions of the Bible and the Talmud is the different outlooks held by the previous Rabbis or Priests concerning different aspects of these two religions which has unfortunately ( well I think it is unfortunate) lead to many changes taking place in the Talmud or the Bible and in the end in a sort of manipulation of the original text.

Amongst ALL these different versions a person looking for the Truth would like to be given or at least be able to find the ONE version which is the AUTHENTIC one. It is only reasonable to believe that NOT EVERY version of the Talmud or the Bible can be authentic and there should be the possibility of human error (as the Rabbis or Priests who have undertaken to interpret or perhaps change some segments were NOT prophets and therefore NOT immune to human error!)

With Islam the different denominations exist NOT due to these different interpretations or manipulations (as All denominations of Islam have the SAME Quran) but rather as a result of " who should inherit the guidance of Islam after prophet Muhammad's passing away."

The Shia believe that the leadership (of course no more prophet hood here, as Muslims believe that Muhammad was The Last Prophet and there would be no other prophet after him) of the Islamic society should be decided through heavenly guidance and believe that the chosen person should be one who is COMPLETELY FREE of ANY sort of SIN ( just as all the prophets were free of sin according to the Shia). Therefore they believed that the Lord himself has to choose the person and according to Shia sources, the prophet Muhammad -after divine inspiration-announced to his people the rightful person as his successor who would guide them and he was his cousin ALI. But after the prophet's passing away some of the influential people denied Ali the right of becoming the first "Imam" and selected a person in his stead, these people form the Sunni denomination in Islam. Therefore the major difference amongst Muslims is NOT the different versions of the Quran but rather the matter of choosing a successor.

Now All what I have written was an introduction for what I'm about to write now (I'm reaaally sorry for the long intro but I felt I had to give more explanation).

The Muslims believe and I think the Quran itself announces( I have to check out the exact chapter) that while the previous Holy Books of Judaism and Christianity for eg have been manipulated by mankind and therefore distorted some of the words of the Lord, NOTHING of the sort has happened for the Quran and shall actually NEVER happen and the muslims believe that this is a promise of the Lord to keep the Quran immune from manipulation.
Now for me it was very hard to just take these words for granted without seeing even the slightest form of some reason. By reading the Quran of course, one realizes that everything is somehow different from what any human being could write, But I had my doubts as to whether ALL these years after the revelation to Prophet Muhammad there could not occur some small forms of change and manipulation, some segments taken out and erased for example or other segments added and changed.

What I have actually found out on August 27th 2008 is something I can just call EXTRAORDINARY!!

This was most probably not known to the world until 4 or five years ago ( I don't know the exact date but I have to search and find out) PLEASE READ VERY CAREFULLY:

A recent research of the Quran using minimum requirements such as a calculator has lead to stupefying results in calculations of some numbers which I can just call MIRACLE NUMBERS (see if you can find anything else to call them)

By the way, anyone can do the same, all you'll need is a calculator and a copy of the Quran.

If you look at the table of contents in the Quran, you'll find that there are 114 chapters of various lengths.
Now if you look at chapter One, you'll see that it only consist of seven verses, chapter two has 288 verses and so on.

what you need to do is to add the number position of each chapter with its number of verses. For example the first chapter: chapter 1+7(verses); Chapter 2+286(verses)…

You will notice that Miraculously what you get is exactly 57 "even" results and yes exactly 57 "odd" results!!!

But the amazing surprise continues:

*If we add up all our "even" results what we get is a number which is exactly the same as the total number of ALL the verses in the Quran!!!! 6236

AND….

*If we add up all our "odd" results what we get is a number which is exactly the same as the total number of ALL the chapters in the Quran!!!! 6555

See for yourself by using a calculator, a sheet of paper and a pencil. You'll need nothing more!



Note:
I don't really know what the odds are of somebody writing a whole book of about 500 pages( Keep in mind that Prophet Muhammad was ILLITERATE prior to prophethood!!!) in which everything is closely interwoven and completely makes sense, full of different genres such as stories, supplications, prayers, warnings…. and at the same time organize every break of thought or sentence in a way so that about 1000 something years later with the great extent of research done on the Quran, such carefully impossible categorization can be found in it!!!!

I can just exclaim: WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!

This table makes it easier to visualize:

Eagerly awaiting your helpful thoughts.

Wish you all a blessed day
Eli

Eve's Legacy

Dear all:
The parts in which the wording is in red are parts which I would like to be discussed from authentic Judaic, Christian points of view and I would like you to help me in terms of their authenticity, even though there are bibliographic Notes at the end which seem to show that all the segments have been taken from the Bible and the Talmud.

Thank you for your help once more.
Eli

The image of Eve as temptress in the Bible has resulted in an extremely negative impact on women throughout the Judaeo-Christian tradition.

All women were believed to have inherited from their mother, the Biblical Eve, both her guilt and her guile. Consequently, they were all untrustworthy, morally inferior, and wicked. Menstruation, pregnancy, and childbearing were considered the just punishment for the eternal guilt of the cursed female sex.

In order to appreciate how negative the impact of the Biblical Eve was on all her female descendants we have to look at the writings of some of the most important Jews and Christians of all time. Let us start with the Old Testament and look at excerpts from what is called the Wisdom Literature in which we find:

"I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare....while I was still searching but not finding, I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all" (Ecclesiastes 7:26-28).

In another part of the Hebrew literature which is found in the Catholic Bible we read:

"No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" (Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24).

Jewish Rabbis listed nine curses inflicted on women as a result of the Fall:

"To the woman He gave nine curses and death: the burden of the blood of menstruation and the blood of virginity; the burden of pregnancy; the burden of childbirth; the burden of bringing up the children; her head is covered as one in mourning; she pierces her ear like a permanent slave or slave girl who serves her master; she is not to be believed as a witness; and after everything--death."[3]

To the present day, orthodox Jewish men in their daily morning prayer recite "Blessed be God King of the universe that Thou has not made me a woman." The women, on the other hand, thank God every morning for "making me according to Thy will"[4]. ( This is really something I find very hard to believe from a reigion of the Lord, somebody help me please, I need clarifications. Eli)

Another prayer found in many Jewish prayer books: "Praised be God that he has not created me a gentile. Praised be God that he has not created me a woman. Praised be God that he has not created me an ignoramus."[5]

The Biblical Eve has played a far bigger role in Christianity than in Judaism. Her sin has been pivotal to the whole Christian faith because the Christian conception of the reason for the mission of Jesus Christ on Earth stems from Eve's disobedience to God. She had sinned and then seduced Adam to follow her suit. Consequently, God expelled both of them from Heaven to Earth, which had been cursed because of them.

They bequeathed their sin, which had not been forgiven by God, to all their descendants and, thus, all humans are born in sin. In order to purify human beings from their 'original sin', God had to sacrifice Jesus, who is considered to be the Son of God, on the cross. Therefore, Eve is responsible for her own mistake, her husband's sin, the original sin of all humanity, and the death of the Son of God. In other words, one woman acting on her own caused the fall of humanity.[6]

What about her daughters? They are sinners like her and have to be treated as such. Listen to the severe tone of St. Paul in the New Testament:

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Timothy 2:11-14).

St. Tertullian was even more blunt than St. Paul, while he was talking to his 'best beloved sisters' in the faith, he said[7]:
"Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil's gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert even the Son of God had to die."

St. Augustine was faithful to the legacy of his predecessors, he wrote to a friend:
"What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman......I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children." (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am bewildered)

Centuries later, St. Thomas Aquinas still considered women as defective:
"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence."

Finally, the renowned reformer Martin Luther could not see any benefit from a woman but bringing into the world as many children as possible regardless of any side effects:
"If they become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that's why they are there"

Again and again all women are denigrated because of the image of Eve the temptress, thanks to the Genesis account.

To sum up, the Judaeo-Christian conception of women has been poisoned by the belief in the sinful nature of Eve and her female offspring.

If we now turn our attention to what the Qur’an has to say about women, we will soon realize that the Islamic conception of women is radically different from the Judaeo-Christian one. Let the Qur’an speak for itself:

"For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise-- For them all has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward" (33:35).

"The believers, men and women, are protectors, one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil, they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His Mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise" (9:71).

"And their Lord answered them: Truly I will never cause to be lost the work of any of you, Be you a male or female, you are members one of another" (3:195).

"Whoever works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof, and whoever works a righteous deed -whether man or woman- and is a believer- such will enter the Garden of bliss" (40:40).

"Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily to him/her we will give a new life that is good and pure, and we will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions" (16:97).

It is clear that the Qur’anic view of women is no different than that of men. They, both, are God's creatures whose sublime goal on earth is to worship their Lord, do righteous deeds, and avoid evil and they, both, will be assessed accordingly.

The Qur’an never mentions that the woman is the devil's gateway or that she is a deceiver by nature. The Qur’an, also, never mentions that man is God's image; all men and all women are his creatures, that is all. According to the Qur’an, a woman's role on earth is not limited only to childbirth. She is required to do as many good deeds as any other man is required to do.

The Qur’an never says that no upright women have ever existed. To the contrary, the Qur’an has instructed all the believers, women as well as men, to follow the example of those ideal women such as the Virgin Mary and the Pharaoh's wife:

"And Allah sets forth, As an example to those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: 'O my lord build for me, in nearness to you, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings and save me from those who do wrong.' And Mary the daughter of Imran who guarded her chastity and We breathed into her body of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His revelations and was one of the devout" (66:11-13).

Notes:
[3] Leonard J. Swidler, Women in Judaism: The Status of Women in Formative Judaism (Metuchen, N.J.: Scarecrow Press, 1976), p. 115
[4] Thena Kendath, “Memories of an Ortodox Youth”, in Susannah Heschel ed, On Being a Jewish Feminist (New York: Schocken Books, 1983), pp. 96-97.
[5] Leonard J. Swidler, Women in Judaism: The Status of Women in Formative Judaism, op. cit., pp. 80-81.
[6] Rosemay R. Ruether, “Christianity”, in Arvind Sharma ed., Women in World Religions (Albany: State University of New York Press, 1987) p. 209.
[7] For all the saying of the prominent Saints, see Karen Armstrong, The Gospels according to Woman (London, Elm Tree Books, 1986) pp. 52-62. See also Nancy Van Vuuren, The Subversion of Women as Practiced by Churches, Witch-Hunters, and Other Sexists (Philadelphia: Westminster Press) pp. 28-30.

Women In Islam Versus Women In The Judaeo-Christian Tradition

Dear readers;

As a woman specially interested in women's affairs, but at the same time someone who is 100% agianst the misleading feminist movement, and also as somebody who is trying to study three of the major religions of our world I am very much interested in what each of these religions have to say about "My part of the population: Woman".

As you know I have started reading the Quran and I must inform you that to my amazement ( since I always saw Islam depicted as a very backward religion in its stance towards women which in some respects could be deduced from the situation of women in many Arabic countries) I found ONE WHOLE chapter entitled "Woman".
Now to me this was really amazing to find out.

I am very eager to know what the other two religions have to offer in terms of woman and her rights and hope that those of you who are more informed than me in this particular respect shall help me out.

In my search I have come across this article which I have found very interesting to read. I have not read it completely yet but I was so excited about what I read that I thought I'd share it with you as I read. I'll put additional posts as I continue.

I am still waiting you thoughtful, kind ideas and thoughts.

Eli

Have a good week to come.

WAS IT EVE'S FAULT?!

The three religions agree on one basic fact: Both women and men are created by God, The Creator of the whole universe.

However, disagreement starts soon after the creation of the first man, Adam, and the first woman, Eve. The Judaeo-Christian conception of the creation of Adam and Eve is narrated in detail in Genesis (2:4-24).

God prohibited both of them from eating the fruits of the forbidden tree. The serpent seduced Eve to eat from it and Eve, in turn, seduced Adam to eat with her.

When God rebuked Adam for what he did, he put all the blame on Eve,

"The woman you put here with me --she gave me some fruit from the tree and I ate it."(Genesis, 3: 12).

Consequently, God said to Eve:

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you." (Genesis, 3: 16).

To Adam He said:

"Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree of which I forbideen you to eat, “ Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life..." (Genesis, 3: 17).

The Islamic conception of the first creation is found in several places in the Qur’an, for example:

"O Adam dwell with your wife in the Garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm and transgression. Then Satan whispered to them in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them and he said: 'Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels or such beings as live forever.' And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought them to their fall: when they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the Garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: 'Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan was your avowed enemy?' They said: 'Our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be lost' " (7:19:23).

A careful look into the two accounts of the story of the Creation reveals some essential differences.

The Qur’an, contrary to the Bible, places equal blame on both Adam and Eve for their mistake. Nowhere in the Qur’an can one find even the slightest hint that Eve tempted Adam to eat from the tree or even that she had eaten before him. Eve in the Qur’an is no temptress, no seducer, and no deceiver. Moreover, Eve is not to be blamed for the pains of childbearing. God, according to the Qur’an, punishes no one for another's faults. Both Adam and Eve committed a sin[2]and then asked God for forgiveness and He forgave them both.

Notes:
[2]Shi’ah Muslims do not subscribe to the belief that Adam and Eve committed a ‘sin’. They argue that Adam was a prophet and prophets do not sin. Furthermore Adam eating from the tree was before he was sent to the earth {where the ‘Permissible & Forbidden’ (halal & haram) and ‘Obedience & Disobedience’ are applicable and possible}. For more information see http://www.al-islam.org/shiism/ (Chapter 7).

Prayer of the Repenters

Dear Friends;
Surfing through different sites on the web I came across this prayer in a site which I have put in my sidebar (www.al-islam.org). The prayer is from a very famous person, someone the Shia moslems call the Imam, in this special case Imam Sajjad and his book Sahifa al Sajjadiyah(Munajat).

There are many more prayers each relating to a special case between the Lord and mankind.

I found the wording so intimate and beautiful that I thought it a pity not to share it with everybody else.

It seemed as though I had always wanted to talk to the Lord in this way but had never found quite the right words to say what I wanted to.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it as well

Would love to hear your response and feelings after reading it.

Bless you all

Eli

*Note: Allah is an Islamic word for the Lord or God.


The Whispered Prayer of the Repenters

1- In the Name of ALLAH, the All-merciful, the All-compassionate
2- My God, offenses have clothed me in the garment of my lowliness,
3 -separation from Thee has wrapped me in the clothing of my misery!
4- My dreadful crimes have deadened my heart, so bring it to life by a repentance from Thee!
5- O my hope and my aim!
6- O my wish and my want!
7- By Thy might,َ
8- I find no one but Thee to forgive my sins
9- and I see none but Thee to mend my brokenness!
10- I have subjected myself to Thee in repeated turning,
11- I have humbled myself to Thee in abasement.
12- If Thou castest me out from Thy door, in whom shall I take shelter?
13- If Thou repellest me from Thy side, in whom shall I seek refuge?
14- O my grief at my ignominy and disgrace!
15- O my sorrow at my evil works and what I have committed!
16- I ask Thee,
17- O Forgiver of great sins,
18- O Mender of broken bones,
19- to overlook my ruinous misdeeds
20- and cover my disgraceful secret thoughts!
21- At the witnessing place of the Resurrection, empty me not of the coolness of Thy pardon and forgiveness,
22- and strip me not of Thy beautiful forbearance and covering!
23- My God,
24- let the cloud of Thy mercy cast its shadow upon my sins
25- and send the billow of Thy clemency flowing over my faults!
26- My God,
27- Does the runaway servant go back but to His master?
28- Or does any anyone grant sanctuary to him form His angert but He?
29- My God,
30- if remorse for sins is a repentance,—by Thy might—am one of the remorseful!
31- If praying forgiveness for offenses is an alleviation, I am one of those who pray forgiveness!
32- To Thee I return that Thou may be well pleased!
33- My God, through Thy power over me, turn toward me,
34- through Thy clemency toward me, pardon me,
35- and through Thy knowledge of me, be gentle toward me!
36- My God, Thou art He who hast opened a door to Thy pardon and named it 'repentance', for Thou said,
37- (Repent to ALLAH with unswerving repentance).
38- What is the excuse of him who remains heedless of entering the door after its opening?
39- My God,
40- though the sins of Thy servant are ugly, Thy pardon is beautiful.
41- My God I am not the first
42- to have disobeyed Thee, and Thou turned toward him,
43- or to have sought to attain Thy favour, and Thou wert munificent toward him.
44- O Responder to the distressed!
45- O Remover of injury!
46- O Great in goodness!
47- O Knower of everything secret!
48- O Beautiful through covering over!
49- I seek Thy munificence and Thy generosity to intercede with Thee,
50- I seek Thy side and Thy showing mercy to mediate with Thee,
51- so grant my supplication,
52- disappoint not my hope in Thee,
53- accept my repentance,
54- and hide my offense, through Thy kindness and mercy, O Most Merciful of the merciful!

Good to Share

Dear All;

A Godly Kind Blogger (Dana) has been posting and answering some of my Questions concerning Christianity and the Bible and the different denominations or the versions of the Holy Bible. I actually thought it worthwhile and enlightening to post these dialogues on my main page for all of you to read, in case some of you dont read all the comments section. Here they are. Hope you enjoy reading them and add your own helpful comments and ideas.

Eagerly awaiting your contributions and help

Eli




Dana said...

Eli:Wow! You have tackled quite an undertaking here -- and with children at home! I admire your deligent search for the truth, and I am praying God will honor your search. You asked me to provide some insight, so I thought I would answer some of your questions regarding Christianity. I'll try to keep this short! Of course, keep in mind I'm coming from a Christian perspective and I believe firmly in God as the only God, and Jesus Christ as the only means to Him, so that will (rightfully so) influence all I tell you.First, while there are many denominations of Christianity, all agree on some basic tenants. They are: we are all created by God, in His image; we are all sinners, meaning we have traded the truth about God for a lie and lived accordingly; God's justice demands we pay the penalty for our sins - death; God's mercy provided a solution for this payment - He sent His son, to die on a cross, to pay the penalty for our sins; when we believe in God and put our trust in Him, we receive His free gift of mercy and His on-going gift of grace, and we will join Him in heaven for all eternity; the Bible is the Word of God, communicated by God through men, to provide us with both an understanding of who God is and an understanding of the standard He holds us to; it is only by the Holy Spirit that we are empowered to live the life required of us in the Bible. Even in these few statements, there are areas of disagreement - but I would say most people who call themselves a Christian would agree with these statements. Denominations, then, are really a reflection of God's creativity! Just as we each are individuals, each denomination is kind of like a corporate individual. So don't get stuck on which denomination is "right" - that's not as critical of a question as the real questions you're asking - which God is right?The next question you had was regarding the Bible. As you noted, there are many different translations available. The difference between translations, at the most basic level, lies in the translation approach taken, whether the translators were trying to render a literal translation or a "thought-for-thought" translation. My recommendation - pick the one that makes the most sense to you (unless you want to learn Greek and Hebrews and read it in the original language!). All of them contain the same information, it's just presented differently.Finally, I want to recommend one site that I think does an incredible job of offering reviews and insights on studying the Bible - it's called Best Bible (http://www.best-bible.org/). Truth-in-advertising statement here - a friend put it together! But I would recommend it even if the moderator weren't a friend.I'll stop for now, to save you space! But please let me know if there are any other questions I can answer. I'll keep an eye on your blog and chime in when I have something worth sharing.
August 11, 2008 11:32 AM



eli said...

Dana;I really appreciate your helpful response. thanx also for the site, I'll visit it in my first free time from housework...... :-). You gave a good summary of who a Christian is, I hope you'll continue visiting my blog and add more crucial information about all aspects of Christianity.While I'm thankful to your enlightening response I must admit that there are some points I find difficult to agree on. One such point is what you said about the different denominations and their being a symbol of God's creativity.You said that you believe in Only One God(As far as I have found out this is exactly what the Jews and Moslems also believe in). Don't you think that it can only be reasonable that this One and Only God should present the ones whom he has equally created with only one way that leads to salvation? If you really think about it you'll realize that being unified in outlook is in fact a very important advantage that I dont think someone as wise and all-knowing as God would sacrifice in order to show his creativity. I agree that we are all individuals and may have our individual needs when it comes to fulfilling our religious needs, but i would think that to a great power such as God we would all be the same. I would think that it were perhaps the degree of each person's piety and his/her dedication to God which would make one individual different from another, not choosing a particular denomination. I'm sure you also agree that there are instances when denomination differences lead to trouble and havoc just as we have seen in all major religions and the conflicts among their different denominations in world history.I therefore think that a limitless all powerfull, like God would move all his people towards ONE Unified Truth and NOT various half-truths which would I think in the end not be able to grasp the REAL TRUTH.Wow I thought I'd be brief and look what has happend!!I once again thank you for your comment and greatly hope that you'll continue your thoughtful dialogue here with me and hopefully other visitors.Have a nice time with your family and your two lovely children.Eli
August 11, 2008 12:16 PM



Dana said...

Eli:I'll keep this brief because now is the time I usually spend in the Bible . . . but I wanted to write back that you are absolutely, 100% correct. It would make no sense for an absolutely perfect God to have several different ways to reach Him. As the Bible says (in John 14:6) "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (this is Jesus Christ, the son of God, speaking). I think your confusion lies in what denominations are. In the Christian religion, denominations aren't different "sects" that have different opinions on how to reach God - they differ on uncritical aspects, such as worship style (whether the music should be acapella, with organs, or with guitars and drums), whether a person should be "dunked" or "sprinkled" when baptized . . . I wouldn't worry about the differences in denomination at this point in your search. There are more critical differences regarding theology between the different denominations, but they won't make much sense until you understand who God is and why He is, as I believe, the only true God. One thing that denominations should not disagree on is who God is (which is one reason why I would disagree with the thought that Mormons are a "denomination" of Christianity - they believe, among other differences, that there is another book in addition to the Bible and this thought doesn't line up with what the Bible says about itself). Really, the easiest way to tell what all Christians should agree on is to read the Bible, in its entirety, with prayer. There are certainly different interpretations on what it all means, but I believe that if you read the Bible prayerfully and honestly God will reveal Himself to you. The Bible can only be understood with prayer, and in context (removing verses to make points can get very dangerous). I hope that clarifies the denomination question. Summary answer -- don't get bogged down in what the differences are between denominations. They are a man-made creation. Look at what the Bible, the word of God, says about who God is. That's where your answers lie, not in the documents put out by man-made institutions.
August 13, 2008 4:15 AM



eli said...

Dana;You are absolutely right. I think I need to clarify a few points here as to avoid furthur misconceptions :-)It has never been my intention to discover which denomination is the absolute truth.In All religions there are unfortunately many many denominations which only makes it more difficult for the seeker. I agree that talking about denomination differences is only a WASTE of time and shall result in no good.I just have a short question:If I want to study Christianity is it OK for me to start by reading the first Bible that comes my way? Is it ok for example to search the internet and start reading any Bible (you know that there are many different versions)that I find online? Wouldn't I later on for example encounter differences in outlook which would force me to study other versions as well?Up to now I have realized that the Bible is a lot easier than the Talmude in reading. That is because even in one version of the Talmude there are numerous versions of verdicts by different Rabbis on the same subject which I find very confusing and as I have found out even the most religious Jews cannot agree on many of them.So Dana,( I don't know which denomination you belong to) would you recommend me to read the Bible, just any version I may like or do you think that one should be careful in choosing? If the latter, how should one find out which version is more near to truth and authentic? I didn't have this problem with the Quran, because as I have mentioned before there is only and only ONE version and I find it a blessing (the Quran itself considers this fact a miracle of the Lord shown to mankind in terms of showing the authenticity of the book)I would be eagerly waiting your helpful answers.thanx againEli
August 14, 2008 12:01 AM



Dana said...

Eli:Something further to add to our discussion on denominations -- I asked a friend in seminary how he would explain the difference between denominations, and here's what he had to say. Hope it helps, and hope your quest continues to go well! Oh, and here's his blog (http://www.goingtoseminary.com/), if you're interested."Denominations occur mostly out of human preference. As humans, we tend to decide the things we want to emphasize and we gather like minded people around us. So, Presbyterians like to talk about God's sovereignty and think that it is important, so people who also think that tend to be drawn to that denomination. Baptists think that evangelism is really important, so people who think that tend to be drawn to that denomination. Charismatics think spiritual gifts are really important, so people who think that tend to be drawn to those denominations.Now, the catch is that though these denominations tend to have areas of emphasis, they all agree on the main thing, that Jesus is the most important.An analogy, though probably a weak one (as most analogies are) is Restaurants. All restaurants are about food. However, some restaurants tend to emphasize different aspects of food. Some emphasize it ability to be prepared quickly, some emphasize its ability to be presented in a beautiful manner, and some emphasize how amazing it can taste. While all these restaurants focus on a true aspect of food, they all agree that restaurants are about food. Also, in most restaurants you'll find mostly the same thing: meat, seasonings, starch, veggies, a kitchen, pots, pans... They may be set up slightly different, they might uses things in a slightly different manner... but at the end of the day, it is a restaurant and it serves food.In the same way, denominations are about Jesus. In all of them you will find the gospel of faith in christ, you will find communion and baptism, you will find the 66 books of the bible, you will find worship and prayer of the triune God, you will find a virgin birth, you will find death on a cross. Now, these might be arranged a little differently or presented a little differently, but it is all there."Hope that helps!Dana
August 20, 2008 12:02 PM



eli said...

Dana;I really appreciate your designating some part of your time to answer my questions. May the Almighty Lord give you your due reward and blessing.Thanx for the explanation on denominations, but you still didn't answer my question concerning different versions of the Bible and whether its fine to read ANY version I come across. Its really important for me to know the differences about the different versions and the extent of difference. Also some info concerning the reasons for lack of unity among the available Bibles would be of great help. You see I just cant come to terms with the fact that if God is ONE unique entity being worshipped by for eg all Christians, why should He NOT send ONE unique book for the worshippers? I understand your explanations concerning the differenr denominations but really can't come to terms with the DIFFERENT versions of the Bible, it just doesn't make sense.Of course as I have mentioned before, this problem is non-existant regarding the Quran which has made my job or anyone else's quite easy and the Quran itself considers this ( its uniqueness amongst All Moslems regardless of any denomination) something miraculous and a reflection of the Qurans lack of manipulation by mankind and a true revelation without change sent from God.Of course if you take a quick look at my blog you'll see that up to now I have found verses from the Quran which shows that the Moslems through the Quran are faithful to the holy religions before Islam, namely Judaism , Christianity and they also believe in all the prophets that the Jews and Christians believe in. Islam just claims that it has come as a COMPLETING agent and the Final revelation from the Lord in order to finish off and complete whatever was revealed before it and also to remove any manipulations which have entered the Holy Books of the previous pious People of the Holy Books.I am therefore asking you and ANY other good Christian to help me find out the version of the Bible upon which MOST denominations agree upon and also to have reasons to support this choice, ones that would satisfy any one who might ask me why I have chosen that particular version for example.Also information regarding the differences amongst the available Bibles and the REASONS for these differences would be much helpful and appreciated.I'm sorry for all the troubles I'm making, but you probably understand how important it would be to me or anybody else who has started this major research for the Truth.May the Almighty help us all in our journey for TRUTH.Thank you againEli
August 23, 2008 7:09 AM

puzzling questions

Greetings to all!

As you can see I've been reading the Quran now for some time. I haven't been making very much progress so far because I feel that I need to ponder upon every word and also because at the same time I'm trying to gain acess to the Talmude and study that as well... but unfortunately right now I'm facing many problems. One of the most important ones being the fact that I have now through some research realized that the Talmud is not just one book but in fact something like an encyclopedia, also I have come to realize that there are two versions of the talmude, the Babylonian and the Jerusalem Talmude, from what I've gathered the Babylonian Talmude is of higher authority and in cases of doubt is the decisive one. Now for me there is a big question mark as to how to determine which one to study and even if I decide to for example start with the Babylonian one how shall I be able to get access to the complete version. I have more or less found out that there is NO complete version of the Talmude online, while I have found numerous versions of the Quran on the internet. I would therefore ask anyone who can help in terms of information on access to the complete version of the Talmud ( Babylonian or Jerusalem) preferrably an online version.

In terms of Christianity also I have been facing numerous difficulties. I know that the Christian Bible consists of the Old Testament and the New Testament, but again a quick search through the internet has just increased my bafflement as there are so many different denominations that I just don't know with which to start if the need arises so.

One great advantage that I've found with the Quran is the elimination of this baffling circumstance due to there being only ONE version of the Quran to which ALL Muslems adhere, regardless of which denomination they belong to.

I have therefore decided to continue reading the Quran but at the same time need the help of those who are knowledged in Judaism and Christianity so as to have an objective outlook presented in my blog.

May the Lord Guide all with His Light.

I'll be eagerly waiting any response.

wish you all a healthy weekend.
Eli

The story of Moses in chapter entitled "TA-HA"

This chapter of eight sections was revealed after the previous one on "Mary 19".
It begins with the story of Moses (I-II), narrated in a conversational style, full of vivid word pictures.

In the name of God, the Mercy-giving, the Merciful!
(I) * T. H.
* We have not sent the Quran down to you in order to upset you, * but only as a Reminder for someone who acts cautiously; * [it is] a revelation from the One Who created the earth and the highest heavens, ** the Mercy-giving [Who is] settled on the Throne. He owns whatever is in Heaven and whatever is on Earth, as well as whatever lies in between them, and what lies underneath the sod.
* No matter whether you speak out loud, He still knows your secrets and what is even more suppressed.* God, there is no deity except Him!His are the Finest Names!

Moses' Story

* Has Moses' story ever reached you? ** Once he saw a fire and told his family: "Wait here; I have glimpsed a fire. Maybe I can bring you a coal from it, or find some guidance at the fire."
Disbelievers' Victims
* As he came up to it, [a voice] called out: "Moses, * I am your Lord! Take off your sandals; you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa. * I have chosen you, so listen to whatever is revealed: * I am God [Alone]! There is no deity except Myself, so serve Me and keep up prayer to remember Me by. ** The Hour is coming! I am keeping it hidden so that each soul may be rewarded for whatever it accomplishes. * So do not let anyone who does not believe in it and follows his own passion, bar you from it so that you may perish!

* "What do you have in your right hand, Moses?" * He said: "It is my staff. I lean on it, and beat down fodder for my sheep and goats with it; and I have still other uses for it." * He said: "Toss it down, Moses."

** So he threw it down, and just imagine, it became a snake that crawled along! * He said: "Pick it up, and do not be afraid. We shall return it to its original shape. * And stick your hand under your armpit: it will come out white without [showing] any blemish, as another sign * so that We may show you some of Our greatest signs! * Go to Pharaoh; he has been so arrogant."
Moses' Prayer
(II) ** He said:

"My Lord, ease my breast for me! * Make my affair easier for me,* and loose a knot from my tongue* so they may understand whatever I say.* Grant me a helpmate from my own people,** Aaron, my brother.
* "Back me up by means of him * and let him share in my affair * so that we may glorify You frequently * and mention You often, ** since You have been Observant of us."

* He said: "You have been granted your request, Moses. * We endowed you another time * when We revealed whatever was revealed to your mother: * "Cast him into the chest, and toss it into the river. The current will throw him up on the shore where an enemy of Mine as well as an enemy of his will pick him up."
"I have lavished love of My own on you so that you might be made into My darling. ** So your sister was walking along, and said: "Shall I lead you to someone who will take care of him?' Thus We returned you to your mother to comfort her and so she would not feel so sad.
"You killed a soul and We saved you from grief. We tested you severely, and you stayed among the people of Midian for years. Then you came just as fate [decreed], Moses. * I have produced you for Myself. * Take My signs away, both you and your brother, and do not neglect to mention Me. * Go to Pharaoh; he has been so arrogant. * Speak a soft word to him so that he may be reminded or even feel afraid."

** They both said: "Our Lord, we fear lest he crack down on us or that he should act arrogant." * He said: "Do not fear; I am with you both. I both hear and see. * Go to him and say: "We are both messengers from your Lord. Send the Children of Israel away with us and do not torment them. We have brought you a sign from your Lord, and may "Peace be upon whoever follows guidance." * As for us, it has been revealed to us that torment is due anyone who says it is a lie and turns away!'"
* He said; "Who is Lord for both of you, Moses?" ** He said: "Our Lord is the One Who has given everything its own constitution; then guided it." * He said: "So what was the attitude during earlier centuries?" * He said: "Knowledge concerning them rests in a Book with my Lord. My Lord neither misses anything, nor does He forget, * [since he is the One] Who has laid out the earth as a carpet for you and has traced highways on it for you, and sent down water from the sky, We have brought forth every sort of plant with it, of various types. * Eat and pasture your livestock [on it]; in that are signs for men of accomplishment.

* Yet We showed him all Our signs, and he said they were lies and rejected them! * He said: "Have you come to us to turn us out of our land through your magic, Moses? * We will bring magic to match it, so make an appointment between us and you in some convenient place which neither we nor you will break." * He said: "Your appointment will be on Decoration Day so that people may be summoned early in the morning."
** So Pharaoh turned away and put his plan together; then he came [back]. * Moses told them: "Watch out for yourselves! Dont invent any lie about God lest He blot you out through torment. Anyone who invents things will be disappointed." * They debated their case among themselves and kept the discussion secret. * They said: "These are both magicians who want to expel you from your land by means of their magic, and do away with your exemplary ways. * Get together for your scheme; then come all lined up. Whoever comes out on top today will prosper!"
The Tournament of Magic
** They said: "Moses, either you will cast [something] or shall we be the first to cast [a spell]?" He said: "Rather you throw [first]."
You should have seen their ropes and rods! It appeared to him as if they were moving around because of their magic, * so Moses conceived a fear within himself. * We said: "Do not act afraid: you will come out on top! * Throw down what is in your right hand so it will swallow up anything they have produced. What they have produced is only some magician's trick, and no magician succeeds no matter where he goes."
** So the magicians threw themselves down on their knees. They said: "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses." * He said: "Have you believed in Him before I permit you to? He must be your chief who has taught you magic! I'll cut your hands and feet off on opposite sides, and have you crucified on the trunks of datepalms, so you may know which of us is harsher with torment and going to last longer."
* They said: "We will never choose you before explanations have come to us nor ahead of the One Who originated us. Decide anything you may decide; you are no judge: You will only decide during this worldly life. * We believe in our Lord, so He may forgive us our mistakes as well as for any magic you have compelled us to perform. God is Better and more Enduring."

One whole chapter on "MARY"!

I have found a whole chapter in the Quran entitled "Mary" and was quite amazed. It seems that the moslims have a very high regard of Jesus Christe and his mother Mary. I will post some parts of the chapter and would be eagerly waiting to hear about your thoughtful response.In another chapter I read that the Quran denounces some people of the book for slandering Mary of unchastity and promises punishment for those who consider her not pure.


Mary

(II) * Mention in the Book how Mary withdrew from her people to an Eastem place. * She chose to be secluded from them. We sent her Our spirit, who presented himself to her as a full-grown human being. *She said: "I take refuge with the Mercy-giving from you, unless you are someone who does his duty."* He said: 'I am only your Lord's messenger to bestow a clean-living boy on you," ** She said: "How shall I have a boy when no human beinghas ever touched me, nor am I a loose woman?" * He said: "Thus yourLord has said: "It is a simple matter for Me [to do]. We will grant him as a sign for mankind and a mercy from Ourself." It is a matter that has been decided."* So she conceived him, and withdrew to a remote place to have him. *Labor pains came over her by the trunk of a datepalm. She said: "If only I had died before this, and been forgotten, overlooked!"* Someone called out to her from below where she was: "Dont feel so sad! Your Lord has placed a brook at your feet. ** Shake the trunk of the datepalm towards you so it will drop some fresh dates on you. Eat and drink, and refresh yourself. Should you see even a single human being, then say: "I have vowed to keep a fast to the Mercy-giving whereby I'll never speak to any person today!"'* She carried him back to her family. They said: "Mary, you have brought something hard to believe! * Kinswoman of Aaron, your father was no evil man, nor was your mother a loose woman." * She pointed to him. They said: "How shall we talk to someone who is a child in the cradle?"

Jesus's Speech As a Child

** He said: "I am God's servant. He has given me the Book and made me a prophet. * He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and commissioned me to pray and [pay] the welfare tax so long as I live;and [to act] considerate towards my mother. He has not made me domineering, hard to get along with. * Peace be on the day I was born,and the day I shall die and the day I am raised to life again!"* Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; [it is] a true statement which they are still puzzling over. It is not God's role to adopt a son. Glory be to Him! Whenever He determines upon some matter, He merely tells it:"Be!", and it is. * God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him[Alone]. This is a Straight Road [to follow].* Factions have differed among themselves, yet how awful will it be for those who disbelieve when it comes to the spectacle on such a dreadful day! * Listen to them and watch for the day when they will come to Us; though wrongdoers are in obvious error even today. * Warn them of the Day of Regret when the matter will be decided; they act so heedless and still do not believe. ** It is We Who will inherit the earth plus anyone on it; to Us shall they return.